When I was investigating Islam, this is exactly what I found in my own reasoning. It was clear from the Quran that it was instructions specifically for the wives of the Prophet (pbuh). In all my readings since then, I can't see it outside of that context.
Here in the United States, wearing the headscarf DOES draw more attention to us. It, in some cases, can attract further harm, and (even now as I'm personally experiencing) may contribute to a reduction in job interviews, paying clients, etc. This seems to be the opposite of being protected which is what the headscarf seemed to imply.
When I first accepted Islam, I was still living in my van on the road (on purpose) and I knew I was not done traveling that way at that time. The scholar that led me in my shahada told me to do nothing that endangered my safety, reminded me that Islam was revealed over a long period of time, and covering my hair was not the primary focus right then and there.
For me, wearing it happened in stages. Now that I've been wearing it full-time publicly for eight months, I understand it is a deeply personal choice for a woman between herself and Allah to wear it or not, and really quite frankly, is not the business of a single troll or naysayer.
I also believe, situationally, there may be moments where a woman should strip it off out of preventing further harm to herself or the people around her. Avoiding harm supersedes the benefit. (The specific situation I'm envisioning as an example is that someone has a gushing bleeding wound and the only suitable bandage available is wrapped around my hair. Of course, it's coming off to apply pressure to the wound!)
For me, personally, I wanted to get to a place where I could wear it, and now that I do, it's just part of me. Not as a political statement, but as one of protection.
In the past, I've lost job interviews because of my hair (ageism or NOT being "attractive" enough), and more often than not, I've been sexualized because of my hair. Covering it up takes both things away. It symbolizes and speaks clearly to certain folks from my past that I am resolute in my choices going forward, that their choices are very separate from mine. It also helps me in many other ways that I've needed for a good long while. But again, all of this is very personal and individualized.
Typing this up in the comfort of my little apartment, my hair is down, thick, full, salt-and-pepper, and gently shaping both my face and reading glasses. But neither a prospective employer nor men seeking my pleasure and company get to see it.
My rizq is written. I'll get the 💰 I need. I know it.
I strongly believe in providing the balance and letting a person think and enter into that journey on their own. The Quran invites people to think, but doesn't tell them what to think. That's the standard I'm drawn to.
I've appreciated the deep dives you entered into, can appreciate the amount of research you've done on this (as I'm a researcher myself), and the sources you've provided. I bookmarked that mini-series to get into it a bit later down the road. My family is not Muslim, and it's always helpful for me to provide this BALANCE (for and against, because when you follow how folks arrived at those decisions can both be true) on these topics. It helps tear down some of the inaccurate image that's been purported and propped up by the media, etc.
Regardless of some frothing at the mouth over all this, I'm grateful for the balanced discussions.
I don't mean to spam, but I might ask a lot of questions lol. And I think you'd be more than welcoming of them.
In the OG vid, you mentiond modesty is relative to time and place. I can roll with that. The question then becomes, what are the parameters of modesty, and the absolute musts? Because relativity can only be taken so far, after which surely modesty has been breached.
This topic is very intriguing to me as a guy, because when I think of who I want to marry, modesty is a crucial factor. What that looks like in dress has been a long-time brain cramp of mine.
If you have any insights on the absolute minimums of modesty in dress (the other aspects of modesty need their own exploration), I would be very grateful to hear your thoughts!
Alright, I came back from watching the 2 hour video and now it's saved in a folder! I nodded and laughed along to almost every single thin the two of you spoke about. What I still need to do is look into your reasons for why you argue that the hijab is not fard and watching Dr. Sitara's mini series. I'm looking forward to that.
As far as the overall mindset and approach you two brought, I really appreciate it. What kept thinking about is how all of your points seemed to reconcile between the fact that Islam is an "easy" faith, in that the basics are simple, but as you dig deeper, you uncover an expansive and unending mine of rich complexity. This deen caters to the layman who is only concerned about the 5 pillars and being an ethical Muslim in the day-to-day, as well as highly trained academics who are at the forefront of knowledge creation, and everyone between.
I've been meaning to get started on watching the Quran commentary at Usuli Inst., and you've reignited my motivation to do just that.
Salaams. Thank you for your thoughtful comments and engagement. The question I have posed is this: where is the evidence base that hijab is fard? The onus remains on those who declare it fard.
When it comes to fard / obligatory practices, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) took great care to teach the community. These obligations reach us through continuous generational transfer of knowledge and are agreed upon by Muslims eg the daily prayers. Hijab seems to be the only ‘fard’ where extensive interpretive effort is required to turn it into fard. It’s important to understand that there is a different mechanism at play here. Furthermore, we need to consider the weight of evidence before something is labelled as fard, and hijab does not have that weight of evidence behind it. Quite simply, the Quran and the normative praxis of the Prophet do not address the sexual status of women’s hair. It is for this reason that it remains open to interpretation.
In orthodox and Hadith literalist communities, both history and lived community practice are not included as knowledge sources. But when you include them, you find that community practice across time and geography has been varied and diverse. When this fact is pointed out, the literalist and the orthodox respond by saying that the whole ummah was astray up until the 1990s and only now has authentic Islam been found. Then they engage in an exercise where an imagined past is created and women are given a uniform, and that uniform is fast-forwarded to our times. It is for this reason I said that these groups have an ahistorical view of Islam. Sitara
I've been wanting to watch, but I don't live alone and can't watch long videos. Any chance you have a transcript or would write an essay about this topic? I've been Muslim many years but only wear hijab in certain situations and I live in the West, so I'm fascinated by this topic.
That's what I just watched! And I had a good laugh watching the jihadunnafs bloopers 😂😂😂.
I have to explore this more. You make very strong arguments, and the first thing I want to look up are the passages from the texts you mentioned. iA I will look through the resources you linked, and then maybe I'll watch the 2 hour video before finally reading this post.
One thought that came to me as I was watching was this:
God promised to preserve His word, the Qur'an, and God also said He has completed the faith, but He never said He would preserve the deen. I'm refering to these two verses:
إنا نحن نزلنا الذكر وإنا له لحافظون
اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم وأتممت عليكم نعمتي ورضيت لكم الإسلام دينا
When you mentioned about how sh. Khaled explained the effect of colonialism and many other things in response to your question about why the hijab is such a big deal, I thought the above. The Quran is preserved and true, but the versions of Islam we have or the deen as a whole did not benefit from the same divine protection. Even preserving the Quran was no small feat.
Anyways, thank you for making that video. I am hoping to learn much from emgaging further with this topic, and with you. The great benefit for me is that you've been working with your husband since forever ago, but are not as famous as him, and are on Substack, meaning I have access to someone with a tresure trove of knowledge that would be hard to find elsewhere!
I may or may not agree with your stance, but the rabbit hole should prove to be enriching insha Allah. I hope to make notes and then explore the topic with my sheikh. If what you say is true, then the ramifications are HUGE.
I disagree with everything said Saying the Dīn Was Not Preserved Is a Direct Undermining of Islam Itself,if the dīn as a whole wasn't preserved how could Allah say it's complete? Are we saying Allah perfected a religion and then left it to be corrupted without protection? That defeats the whole purpose of revelation.
And practically speaking how are you even identifying the Qur’an as authentic, if the entire dīn and its transmission is supposedly unreliable? The Qur’an reached us through the same chains of transmission (isnād) as the Sunnah, the understanding of the Sahabah, and the consensus of the Salaf.
To trust the Qur’an but not the rest of the dīn is inconsistent and incoherent. and to practically bring up colonialism to support the claim Is a Red Herring
Yes, colonialism affected Muslim societies politically, socially, economically. But it didn’t rewrite the Qur’an, it didn’t corrupt the ijmāʿ of the early scholars, and it certainly didn’t invent the hijāb. Women covering their hair and body has been a universally accepted Islamic ruling from the time of the Prophet ﷺ until today, across all schools of thought.
To suggest otherwise is to suggest that for 1,400 years, Muslims, including thousands of scholars of all backgrounds and languages, somehow misread the Qur’an and Sunnah until modern reinterpretations came along.
That’s simply not credible. and There is only one Islam, and it was preserved through the Qur’an, the Sunnah, the ijmāʿ of the Salaf, and the continued practice of this Ummah. Yes, there are sects, deviations, and misinterpretations but these are known and clearly differentiated.
This is why the Prophet ﷺ said:
“The Jews split into 71 sects, and the Christians split into 72 sects, and this Ummah will split into 73 sects all of them will be in the Fire except one.”
The companions asked, “Which one, O Messenger of Allah?”
He replied: “The one upon what I and my companions are upon .following ahlus sunnah was jammah - which is he consensus of the Rashidun, the first three generations: the Sahabah, their students (Tabiʿīn), and their students (Atbāʿ al-Tabiʿīn) )”
(Reported by Tirmidhī, graded ḥasan)
This ḥadīth clearly shows that the truth remains preserved and it is identifiable. It is upon the way of the Prophet ﷺ and his companions. That is the dīn. That is the preserved Islam. i frankly do not get their claims at all, and their evidences weak
I really appreciate your input on my earlier thoughts. You have a very strong point there that saying the Quran was preserved but not the deen is inconsistent! Thanks for pointing out that reasoning flaw. Haha, that's what I love about dialogue; there's always so much to learn. I like to keep a flexible openness to discourse, but sometimes that makes me vulnerable to making illogical connections/conclusions.
If anything, the deen absolutely should be preserved, right? The core of it at the very least. We know knowledge is lost with the death of scholars. Allah swt takes the knowledge He gives us back (for reference check hadith #100 from Sahih Bukhari if my memory serves me right).
Much to think and learn. Az far as their claim about the hijab, I'm maintaining what I know to be true amd withholding making a comment on their claims until I actually look at their reasonings. I may very well not be persuaded, but its worth looking into. Surely when I bring this to my sheikh, it will yield fruitful discussion.
I went back and read your comment, and I want to note that Grace and Dr. Sitara are not necessarily calling for a modern interpretation of the Quran. Rather, their claim is that the early scholars of Islam did not consider the hijab an absolute fard, if I am understanding their points correctly. What they argue is that the "hijab is fard" is itself a modern interpretation.
It is an intirguing argument at the very least. I am no student of knowledge, but for the sake of the women in my life, I should know with more detail why the hijab ought to be worn, yes? That is my intention in engaging with this topic. Either it reaffirms what I know or I uncover new insights. May Allah swt guide us to the truth in our pursuits!
Dear Brother Hamza, there are so many flaws in what you continue to argue despite all of the resources I have provided to the contrary, which I don't believe you have considered at all. It doesn't seem you have even fully watched my videos. Your views squarely align with the Ahl al Hadith literalist positions of the past, known today as the Wahhabi/Salafi/Jamaa/Madkhali views in our present time, in particular the specific hadith you cite above (which is not only highly problematic, but the basis from which groups like the Taliban and ISIS justify their oppressive and harmful outlooks and practices). For more on this, you can read The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the Extremists (Harpers, 2005). I don't subscribe to the Ahl al Hadith literalist views, which I believe contribute to the destruction of the beauty and elevation inherent to our divine faith, which is intended to elevate humanity. Your arguments are simply ahistorical if not anti-historical. You don't have to believe me, but there is a huge body of work starting with the many resources I have provided in our discussions, that will give you an incredible education. God expects us to be the best of humanity in every time and age. We have clearly failed that charge when 2 Billion Muslims cannot stop a genocide and we are at the bottom of civilization and irrelevant to the world with no self-determination in the Muslim world to say the very least. God told us in the Qur'an if we don't uphold justice and fulfill the commands of morality, ethics and virtue, God will replace us. I believe that you and I follow different understandings and approaches to our faith so let us part ways here and pray that God will lead us both to the most beautiful path always, even if our journeys do not align at this moment. And God Knows Best. May God reward you for the best of your intentions and actions.
For those who missed this link in the description of my video, here is a fatwa (non-binding legal opinion) which you may find helpful by the eminent scholar and Islamic jurist, Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl: https://www.searchforbeauty.org/2016/01/02/fatwa-on-hijab-the-hair-covering-of-women/
I just spent part of my morning reading this.
When I was investigating Islam, this is exactly what I found in my own reasoning. It was clear from the Quran that it was instructions specifically for the wives of the Prophet (pbuh). In all my readings since then, I can't see it outside of that context.
Here in the United States, wearing the headscarf DOES draw more attention to us. It, in some cases, can attract further harm, and (even now as I'm personally experiencing) may contribute to a reduction in job interviews, paying clients, etc. This seems to be the opposite of being protected which is what the headscarf seemed to imply.
When I first accepted Islam, I was still living in my van on the road (on purpose) and I knew I was not done traveling that way at that time. The scholar that led me in my shahada told me to do nothing that endangered my safety, reminded me that Islam was revealed over a long period of time, and covering my hair was not the primary focus right then and there.
For me, wearing it happened in stages. Now that I've been wearing it full-time publicly for eight months, I understand it is a deeply personal choice for a woman between herself and Allah to wear it or not, and really quite frankly, is not the business of a single troll or naysayer.
I also believe, situationally, there may be moments where a woman should strip it off out of preventing further harm to herself or the people around her. Avoiding harm supersedes the benefit. (The specific situation I'm envisioning as an example is that someone has a gushing bleeding wound and the only suitable bandage available is wrapped around my hair. Of course, it's coming off to apply pressure to the wound!)
For me, personally, I wanted to get to a place where I could wear it, and now that I do, it's just part of me. Not as a political statement, but as one of protection.
In the past, I've lost job interviews because of my hair (ageism or NOT being "attractive" enough), and more often than not, I've been sexualized because of my hair. Covering it up takes both things away. It symbolizes and speaks clearly to certain folks from my past that I am resolute in my choices going forward, that their choices are very separate from mine. It also helps me in many other ways that I've needed for a good long while. But again, all of this is very personal and individualized.
Typing this up in the comfort of my little apartment, my hair is down, thick, full, salt-and-pepper, and gently shaping both my face and reading glasses. But neither a prospective employer nor men seeking my pleasure and company get to see it.
My rizq is written. I'll get the 💰 I need. I know it.
I strongly believe in providing the balance and letting a person think and enter into that journey on their own. The Quran invites people to think, but doesn't tell them what to think. That's the standard I'm drawn to.
I've appreciated the deep dives you entered into, can appreciate the amount of research you've done on this (as I'm a researcher myself), and the sources you've provided. I bookmarked that mini-series to get into it a bit later down the road. My family is not Muslim, and it's always helpful for me to provide this BALANCE (for and against, because when you follow how folks arrived at those decisions can both be true) on these topics. It helps tear down some of the inaccurate image that's been purported and propped up by the media, etc.
Regardless of some frothing at the mouth over all this, I'm grateful for the balanced discussions.
I don't mean to spam, but I might ask a lot of questions lol. And I think you'd be more than welcoming of them.
In the OG vid, you mentiond modesty is relative to time and place. I can roll with that. The question then becomes, what are the parameters of modesty, and the absolute musts? Because relativity can only be taken so far, after which surely modesty has been breached.
This topic is very intriguing to me as a guy, because when I think of who I want to marry, modesty is a crucial factor. What that looks like in dress has been a long-time brain cramp of mine.
If you have any insights on the absolute minimums of modesty in dress (the other aspects of modesty need their own exploration), I would be very grateful to hear your thoughts!
Alright, I came back from watching the 2 hour video and now it's saved in a folder! I nodded and laughed along to almost every single thin the two of you spoke about. What I still need to do is look into your reasons for why you argue that the hijab is not fard and watching Dr. Sitara's mini series. I'm looking forward to that.
As far as the overall mindset and approach you two brought, I really appreciate it. What kept thinking about is how all of your points seemed to reconcile between the fact that Islam is an "easy" faith, in that the basics are simple, but as you dig deeper, you uncover an expansive and unending mine of rich complexity. This deen caters to the layman who is only concerned about the 5 pillars and being an ethical Muslim in the day-to-day, as well as highly trained academics who are at the forefront of knowledge creation, and everyone between.
I've been meaning to get started on watching the Quran commentary at Usuli Inst., and you've reignited my motivation to do just that.
Salaams. Thank you for your thoughtful comments and engagement. The question I have posed is this: where is the evidence base that hijab is fard? The onus remains on those who declare it fard.
When it comes to fard / obligatory practices, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) took great care to teach the community. These obligations reach us through continuous generational transfer of knowledge and are agreed upon by Muslims eg the daily prayers. Hijab seems to be the only ‘fard’ where extensive interpretive effort is required to turn it into fard. It’s important to understand that there is a different mechanism at play here. Furthermore, we need to consider the weight of evidence before something is labelled as fard, and hijab does not have that weight of evidence behind it. Quite simply, the Quran and the normative praxis of the Prophet do not address the sexual status of women’s hair. It is for this reason that it remains open to interpretation.
In orthodox and Hadith literalist communities, both history and lived community practice are not included as knowledge sources. But when you include them, you find that community practice across time and geography has been varied and diverse. When this fact is pointed out, the literalist and the orthodox respond by saying that the whole ummah was astray up until the 1990s and only now has authentic Islam been found. Then they engage in an exercise where an imagined past is created and women are given a uniform, and that uniform is fast-forwarded to our times. It is for this reason I said that these groups have an ahistorical view of Islam. Sitara
I've been wanting to watch, but I don't live alone and can't watch long videos. Any chance you have a transcript or would write an essay about this topic? I've been Muslim many years but only wear hijab in certain situations and I live in the West, so I'm fascinated by this topic.
Before I read this post, I think I'll go watch the video. That should make things more fun, so to speak.
For those who missed this link in the description of my video, here is a fatwa (non-binding legal opinion) which you may find helpful by the eminent scholar and Islamic jurist, Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl: https://www.searchforbeauty.org/2016/01/02/fatwa-on-hijab-the-hair-covering-of-women/
Make sure to watch the original video too!
That's what I just watched! And I had a good laugh watching the jihadunnafs bloopers 😂😂😂.
I have to explore this more. You make very strong arguments, and the first thing I want to look up are the passages from the texts you mentioned. iA I will look through the resources you linked, and then maybe I'll watch the 2 hour video before finally reading this post.
One thought that came to me as I was watching was this:
God promised to preserve His word, the Qur'an, and God also said He has completed the faith, but He never said He would preserve the deen. I'm refering to these two verses:
إنا نحن نزلنا الذكر وإنا له لحافظون
اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم وأتممت عليكم نعمتي ورضيت لكم الإسلام دينا
When you mentioned about how sh. Khaled explained the effect of colonialism and many other things in response to your question about why the hijab is such a big deal, I thought the above. The Quran is preserved and true, but the versions of Islam we have or the deen as a whole did not benefit from the same divine protection. Even preserving the Quran was no small feat.
Anyways, thank you for making that video. I am hoping to learn much from emgaging further with this topic, and with you. The great benefit for me is that you've been working with your husband since forever ago, but are not as famous as him, and are on Substack, meaning I have access to someone with a tresure trove of knowledge that would be hard to find elsewhere!
I may or may not agree with your stance, but the rabbit hole should prove to be enriching insha Allah. I hope to make notes and then explore the topic with my sheikh. If what you say is true, then the ramifications are HUGE.
I disagree with everything said Saying the Dīn Was Not Preserved Is a Direct Undermining of Islam Itself,if the dīn as a whole wasn't preserved how could Allah say it's complete? Are we saying Allah perfected a religion and then left it to be corrupted without protection? That defeats the whole purpose of revelation.
And practically speaking how are you even identifying the Qur’an as authentic, if the entire dīn and its transmission is supposedly unreliable? The Qur’an reached us through the same chains of transmission (isnād) as the Sunnah, the understanding of the Sahabah, and the consensus of the Salaf.
To trust the Qur’an but not the rest of the dīn is inconsistent and incoherent. and to practically bring up colonialism to support the claim Is a Red Herring
Yes, colonialism affected Muslim societies politically, socially, economically. But it didn’t rewrite the Qur’an, it didn’t corrupt the ijmāʿ of the early scholars, and it certainly didn’t invent the hijāb. Women covering their hair and body has been a universally accepted Islamic ruling from the time of the Prophet ﷺ until today, across all schools of thought.
To suggest otherwise is to suggest that for 1,400 years, Muslims, including thousands of scholars of all backgrounds and languages, somehow misread the Qur’an and Sunnah until modern reinterpretations came along.
That’s simply not credible. and There is only one Islam, and it was preserved through the Qur’an, the Sunnah, the ijmāʿ of the Salaf, and the continued practice of this Ummah. Yes, there are sects, deviations, and misinterpretations but these are known and clearly differentiated.
This is why the Prophet ﷺ said:
“The Jews split into 71 sects, and the Christians split into 72 sects, and this Ummah will split into 73 sects all of them will be in the Fire except one.”
The companions asked, “Which one, O Messenger of Allah?”
He replied: “The one upon what I and my companions are upon .following ahlus sunnah was jammah - which is he consensus of the Rashidun, the first three generations: the Sahabah, their students (Tabiʿīn), and their students (Atbāʿ al-Tabiʿīn) )”
(Reported by Tirmidhī, graded ḥasan)
This ḥadīth clearly shows that the truth remains preserved and it is identifiable. It is upon the way of the Prophet ﷺ and his companions. That is the dīn. That is the preserved Islam. i frankly do not get their claims at all, and their evidences weak
This was amazing brother Hamza!
I really appreciate your input on my earlier thoughts. You have a very strong point there that saying the Quran was preserved but not the deen is inconsistent! Thanks for pointing out that reasoning flaw. Haha, that's what I love about dialogue; there's always so much to learn. I like to keep a flexible openness to discourse, but sometimes that makes me vulnerable to making illogical connections/conclusions.
If anything, the deen absolutely should be preserved, right? The core of it at the very least. We know knowledge is lost with the death of scholars. Allah swt takes the knowledge He gives us back (for reference check hadith #100 from Sahih Bukhari if my memory serves me right).
Much to think and learn. Az far as their claim about the hijab, I'm maintaining what I know to be true amd withholding making a comment on their claims until I actually look at their reasonings. I may very well not be persuaded, but its worth looking into. Surely when I bring this to my sheikh, it will yield fruitful discussion.
I went back and read your comment, and I want to note that Grace and Dr. Sitara are not necessarily calling for a modern interpretation of the Quran. Rather, their claim is that the early scholars of Islam did not consider the hijab an absolute fard, if I am understanding their points correctly. What they argue is that the "hijab is fard" is itself a modern interpretation.
It is an intirguing argument at the very least. I am no student of knowledge, but for the sake of the women in my life, I should know with more detail why the hijab ought to be worn, yes? That is my intention in engaging with this topic. Either it reaffirms what I know or I uncover new insights. May Allah swt guide us to the truth in our pursuits!
My issue was saying the scholars didn't agree it was fard that's false as I pointed out here 'https://gracesong.substack.com/p/why-i-dont-wear-hijab-and-why-it/comment/111965680?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=319yex
Dear Brother Hamza, there are so many flaws in what you continue to argue despite all of the resources I have provided to the contrary, which I don't believe you have considered at all. It doesn't seem you have even fully watched my videos. Your views squarely align with the Ahl al Hadith literalist positions of the past, known today as the Wahhabi/Salafi/Jamaa/Madkhali views in our present time, in particular the specific hadith you cite above (which is not only highly problematic, but the basis from which groups like the Taliban and ISIS justify their oppressive and harmful outlooks and practices). For more on this, you can read The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the Extremists (Harpers, 2005). I don't subscribe to the Ahl al Hadith literalist views, which I believe contribute to the destruction of the beauty and elevation inherent to our divine faith, which is intended to elevate humanity. Your arguments are simply ahistorical if not anti-historical. You don't have to believe me, but there is a huge body of work starting with the many resources I have provided in our discussions, that will give you an incredible education. God expects us to be the best of humanity in every time and age. We have clearly failed that charge when 2 Billion Muslims cannot stop a genocide and we are at the bottom of civilization and irrelevant to the world with no self-determination in the Muslim world to say the very least. God told us in the Qur'an if we don't uphold justice and fulfill the commands of morality, ethics and virtue, God will replace us. I believe that you and I follow different understandings and approaches to our faith so let us part ways here and pray that God will lead us both to the most beautiful path always, even if our journeys do not align at this moment. And God Knows Best. May God reward you for the best of your intentions and actions.